I've avoided writing about Tony Gwynn's surgery because I have really mixed feelings about it. Of course I want Tony to be OK. Of course I feel for his family. Of course I think cancer is a terrible thing. I would never wish it on anybody.
At the same time, when you play with fire, you get burned. Tony has said as much about his health and his habit in the past.
But beyond that, Tony is a role model and getting paid to be a coach and mentor to kids... If it's part of his job is telling these kids right way to play a game, then it's his responsibility to tell kids the wrong way to play the game also.
And Tony Gwynn didn't do that.
Ask Tony Gwynn about hitting and he has all the right answers. He could pick apart a player's approach. He has advice for the right way and wrong way to approach an at-bat ahead in the count and behind in the count. What to do against certain pitchers and what not to do. Study the tape. Analyze it. Learn from the results. Be better the next time you're in the batters box.
The right way to do things to get the best results.
If you were to ask Tony if you should chew tobacco on a baseball field... "Everybody has their own decisions to make."
I read ridiculous stories all the time about people making "their own" decisions and getting themselves killed or maimed. If it's somebody getting dismembered in the process of building a homemade guillotine or falling off a cliff strapped to a home made flying machine, then we kinda snicker at them. Nominate them for a Darwin Award.
But apparently, according to Tony Gwynn and the MLB players, if it's chewing tobacco, then it's not ridiculous decisions. It's tradition! Who are you to question tradition!?
Last year, it was discussed, but the MLB players would not agree to ban smokeless tobacco on the field. Major League Baseball is really the only sport where emulating what your favorite player does on the field commonly includes using a carcinogen stuffed inside of your cheek.
Tony could've done a lot to persuade the players into agreeing to the ban, but he didn't. And it's because of that that I've hesitated to write anything until now. Because I am a fan of Tony Gwynn's, but this is something that could literally be the death of him and he refuses to be the role model that parents expect him to be.
Do me a favor and Google "cancer mouth surgery". There's plenty of photographs of people with their faces peeled back from their skulls, undergoing the 14 hour surgery that Tony had to go through this week. There are also plenty of photos of people with no jawbones or without access to the types of plastic surgery that have saved Tony's face and instead, they're left disfigured.
Speedy recovery, Tony. Good luck with your health in the future, and let's hope that players who want to emulate you ignore your so-called "advice" when it comes to smokeless tobacco.
Hey Tony, what do you have to say to kids who know you chewed all through your career?
Everybody has their own decisions to make. I made a bad one and I'm suffering the consequences.
Smokeless chewing tobacco is stupid, unnecessary, and unless you like to gamble, chewing will result with you in the hospital with your face peeled back from your skull, under radiation, puking your guts out while your hair falls out or potentially without a jaw, sipping food through a tube for the rest of your life.
5 recs | 53 comments
A bit off topic
Someone on here reminded us that it was the 10 year anniversary of Mike Darr’s death. It always bothered me that the padres never focused on the fact that drinking and not wearing a seatbelt were two significant factors in his death.
It was treated like a tragedy (it was), but it wasn’t treated like a preventable accident that could serve as a warning/reminder to others.
kevintheoman - February 17, 2012
This is a tough topic...
I’m a big proponent of personal liberty and exercising the liberty given to you merely from being born (read life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness). Although I agree that banning smokeless tobacco use on the field may result in not encouraging its use, it would not have prevented Tony’s cancer. I would imagine that if most players that use dip/snuff/chew were not allowed to do so on the field will just use it off field. They’ll still develop cancer and the cause of the cancer will reach admirers after the fact. The only saving grace to banning smokeless tobacco use on field would be that admirers would only learn of the use when the tragic conditions that result from its use are made public. I just cannot see or condone prohibiting the use of smokeless tobacco even in a private setting. Again…a tough topic.
Jsn L - February 17, 2012
I wish there were more recent studies...
From what I could find, about 3.5% of the US population uses smokeless tobacco. A 2005 study says that 36% of major leaguers use smokeless tobacco. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15735297
So just from that study, just being a baseball player makes it 10x more likely that you’re also a smokeless tobacco user and extremely unlikely that you would be a user if you weren’t playing baseball.
Dex - February 17, 2012
Interesting...
So are you saying the the act of playing baseball itself contributes to using smokeless tobacco? I could probably buy into that. I know many a Marine that used smokeless tobacco in the field, but didn’t use it in garrison. That would be an intersting study though.
Jsn L - February 17, 2012
I don't want to misrepresent the study...
Cause obviously, being a pro baseball player also increases the chances that you’re a man to 100%. But yeah… I think there’s a correlation. I also think it’s pretty well assumed that there are some performance benefits to nicotine, which justifies its use by some athletes, though this may or may not be true. http://sciencenordic.com/nicotine-worsens-processing-ability
Dex - February 17, 2012
When you add
testosterone, tradition (of chewing/dipping) and peer pressure, yes, I’d say playing baseball at that level is THE contributing factor.
EvilSammy - February 17, 2012
Military
The military is like baseball. There is a very high number of people that use smokeless tobacco. In the civilian world you would never walk into a business and have the person helping you spit into a bottle. In the navy it happens all the time. It seems to be more prevalent in locker room types of environments.
Ualtar - February 17, 2012
.
Axion - February 17, 2012
I agree to a degree...
Been reading this blog for years but never posted until now. I hope to participate more in the future.
Tony was obviously an amazing hitter, no one denies that… but I always got the feeling that he never wanted to be a “clubhouse leader” and also I get the feeling that he did not fit the “role model” thing either. Yes, he was great with the media and P.R., but I am not sure “role model” was always in the back of his mind. It happens he was a real nice guy with amazing talent.
Thanks for doing this blog guys. Cheers!
-B. Parker
incangoat - February 17, 2012
Welcome! Also, maybe while he's playing that was true...
But it becomes a different issue when his current role involves him visiting the homes of 16-17 year old kids, trying to recruit them to come play for SDSU and then acting as a coach and teacher to those kids during a very influential time in their lives.
Role model becomes part of the job description and those kids are coming to SDSU, in part, to emulate a Hall of Famer.
Dex - February 17, 2012
Thanks Dex
Yes, I can see it from that perspective.
I do wish from the time he discovered the cancer that he became outspoken against tobacco. Speak of his mistakes and tell people how dangerous it really is. Instead, he seemed ashamed to talk about it. Not sure why, but maybe he’ll change.
incangoat - February 17, 2012
since 1993
tabacco has been prohibited in the minors. Is it allowed in college? Where would someone pick up the addiction these days anyways?
kevintheoman - February 17, 2012
It's banned in college
But studies show that among college athletes, baseball players are still the highest percentage users. http://www.nata.org/NR072605
I think it’s a part of the baseball culture.
Dex - February 17, 2012
What about tobacco?
#DayMade
Sam (sdsuaztec4) - February 17, 2012
ugh, I'm forced to use Internet Explorer at work
It doesn’t have spell check. It’s like the Stone Age up in here.
kevintheoman - February 17, 2012
Perhaps we're talking about tomacco?
sdchicken - February 17, 2012
He said he made a bad choice and is suffering the consequences.
That’s good enough for me.
TheThinGwynn - February 17, 2012
Me too
He knows it was wrong, and he’s stopped doing it as a result of what’s happened. Can’t really ask more.
athletics68 - February 17, 2012
Disagree at least for modern players
Who nowadays doesn’t know that tobacco can kill you? Anyone born in 1979 or earlier went through tons of programs about the dangers of smoking, drugs, drunk driving, etc, all throughout elementary middle & high school. Everyone now knows these things will kill you. Gwynn has numerous benign tumors worked on during his career and never asked for help quitting, he even admits it and blames no one but himself. He knew what was going on and still kept at it, no different then an addict to anything else. This constant crap that people are just unable to take care of themselves even with all the information that is out there turns adults into children and removes any possible responsibility for themselves. You’re not to blame for eating a Big Mac a day which made you fat, its McDonalds fault. You’re not to blame for taking an electric radio into the bathtub and electrocuting yourself, its the manufacturers’ fault. You’re not to blame for driving drunk, it’s the beer company and the bartender’s fault for piling you with booze.
I have the utmost sympathy to Gwynn for what he is going through but he knows what happened is the fault of him alone. It doesn’t matter that its part of the culture of the sport or not, you still have to choose to be a part of it. Other players like Tim Flannery got out of it, Gwynn could have either. I want him to go on the road and speak to young players to teach them what can happen with that crap. But banning it suggests that these players no matter the age are just too stupid to know it would hurt them, and that’s an atrocious message in the sport and in society
TheAxManCometh - February 17, 2012
Everything you just said.
TheThinGwynn - February 17, 2012
Who nowadays doesn't know that tobacco can kill you?
Kids. Plain and simple.
What gets said: “Tobacco users on average die 14 years sooner than non-tobacco users”
What kids process: “That’s OK, cause I’ll be old then anyway.”
What gets ignored: “If it doesn’t kill me, there’s a chance that what I’m doing will result in somebody having to surgically pull the skin away from my head to graft a nerve into place so that I have a 50/50 shot of being able to use my face again.”
And everybody likes to think that society doesn’t have an affect on them… that they’re making their own decisions free of any bias and with their eyes wide open to the consequences, but that’s just not true. You are, in large part, what you are exposed to and in the case of anybody aspiring to be a pro baseball player, you are exposed to smokeless tobacco… a LOT.
Dex - February 17, 2012
Sanctimonious dribble
“Won’t someone please think of the children!”
Society already has. To wit, tobacco is illegal to sell/purchase to persons under the age of 18.
Smoove V - February 17, 2012
I'm using "kids" too loosely
The kids that I’m talking about are college “kids” and therefore in a prime position to be influenced into buying smokeless tobacco by Coach Gwynn.
Though I do appreciate your use of “sanctimonious”, “dribble” and “to wit”. That earns a rec.
Dex - February 17, 2012
Is dribble kinda like drivel?
TheThinGwynn - February 17, 2012
It's just like drivel
except when its not.
Smoove V - February 18, 2012
Nice.
That made me smile.
TheThinGwynn - February 18, 2012
Fair enough
Sorry, you got into my political wheelhouse. I can’t stand when people try to take away adult decisions under the guise of the protecting the kids.
Smoove V - February 18, 2012
I agree
and we should legalize crack, heroin, PCP….
Hormel - February 17, 2012
Some people are just wired to learn the hard way.
My entire life I have known that heroin will at least ruin your life if not take it. The examples I’ve seen are beyond numerous. It didn’t stop me from trying it and doing it and doing it again …and again …and et cetera. It took things getting bad enough in my own life to decide “hey, maybe I should stop running this shit up my nose as soon as I wake up and until I nod out on a filthy couch in a disgusting house that smells like cat piss, week-old High Life and who knows what else”. Point is, some people can look at T or anyone who has had to get their jaw cut off and realize “eff that; no way I’m gonna do that to myself” while others have to feel- not see- the pain. My point is, the information is out there and him going on a crusade isn’t going to change a thing. The people who are going to do it are going to do it. Deep in their mind- well, our minds- is the thought that we’re special, that we’re the exception, and that those who died, got a disease or went to prison just went too far but we can somehow “do it right” and beat the game. Nothing that Tony Gwynn, Robert Downey, Jr. or Bradley Nowell’s widow have to say can combat that kind of mindset.
TheThinGwynn - February 17, 2012
Amen brother
It’s like me and my smoking habit. I’ve wanted to quit for years, but I don’t want to quit (If that makes sense to anybody). Until I really, REALLY want to quit, I will still smoke and there probably isn’t anything anybody can say or do to stop me. Tony probably see’s it as a lost cause, which to an extent it is.
SoCalBoltFan - February 17, 2012
I totally agree
But the difference with Tony Gwynn. He’s in a position where kids are wanting his influence. These are kids that are putting themselves in front of Tony Gwynn and saying, “Make me better” and if he took a hard line and told them that smokeless tobacco would not make them better, it would go a long way.
And also, not to pass judgement on people you might’ve hung out with, but I’ve never been tempted to try heroin and wouldn’t even begin to know how to get a hold of it. If you’re exposed to people who use and they seem to hold it together pretty well day to day, then obviously your decisions are going to be influenced by that.
My argument is that chew is SO pervasive with MLB players and MLB players are so influential that I think they have a moral responsibility to not glamorize something so unhealthy.
Dex - February 17, 2012
I would argue that getting cancer cut out of your face isn't holding it together pretty well.
TheThinGwynn - February 17, 2012
You and me both...
Did you happen to Google “mouth cancer surgery”? The peeled back face photos should be required reading for rookie ballplayers.
Dex - February 17, 2012
Also, my favorite musician is Mike Ness...
He’s been clean since I was four or five and never misses an opportunity to speak out against drug use; shit, half of Social D’s songs are about the consequences. I just feel like T going on a crusade against shoving rabbit turds in your lip would have as much impact on some little know it all as much as listening to ‘Dope Fiend Blues’ dissuaded me.
TheThinGwynn - February 17, 2012
I know
And personally, I actually think famous people who’ve used, abused and quit can actually be bad influences. It just proves to the know-it-alls out there that it’s possible to live it up and come out the other side. “I’ll be sober when I’m older”.
That’s why I think it has to be a fundamental change in keeping it off the field. Until it is, there will always be the perception that it’s a performance enhancer and that one can buck the odds and come out with all of their face in one piece.
Also, from a practical matter, I think it’s a bit of a disservice to have the MLB “stand up to cancer” and not take a harder line at prevention*. It kinda makes the whole sentiment sound like, “We hate cancer because it gets in the way of all the smoking and chewing we want to do!”
*if there were a cure for cancer with no side-effects, I would take up smoking wooden pipes right now. As it is, I will wait till I am 55.
Dex - February 17, 2012
Athtetes are role models.
Tobacco is legal.
Both of the above statements are ridiculous.
soulSD - February 17, 2012
Just a quick story I feel is relevant
I went to Painted Rock Elementary (in Poway) and had DARE classes in 5th grade. Tony Gwynn came to our school auditorium and spoke about the addictiveness of tobacco and how hard it was for people to quit.
I only bring this up because if he spoke out in a public forum to kids about tobacco use way back in 1995, it’s possible that he did this kinda stuff all the time (or still does). It was a really good lesson for me – even though he was honest about his current and continued tobacco use/struggles.
Actually; I’m also bringing this story up because we got to meet him afterward, and ten year old me nearly died from excitement.
5fingerGreenehandpunch - February 17, 2012 via mobile
Dude, you're from Poway?
I remember we got the DARE talk from Bochy back in 2001. I went to Creekside, though.
StrangeBroP25 - February 18, 2012
poway sucks
go sundevils!
kevintheoman - February 18, 2012
I had DARE at Pomerado Elementary
I was positive after that program that I want to try most of the drugs they taught us about.
Wonko - February 21, 2012
Dex, I agree with you 100%.
Athletes are unfortunately role models because we live in a society that highly values the ability to hit/throw/catch/kick/throw something ti the point of making those people millionaires/billionaires. They aren’t the best people to model your life after (see Steve Garvey, Plaxico Burress, John Rocker, Pete Rose, Ty Cobb, Tonya Harding, Lenny Dykstra, Alan Wiggins, Ken Caminiti, and countless others). That ability does not mean that they are smart, likable, responsible, or even law-abiding citizens. It does make them very entertaining to watch, and they often have the world’s attention.
Not one of them has a civic duty to demonstrate and advocate what we consider a moral and ethical lifestyle. If a child grows up watching them chew tobacco and dies from it, they are not responsible. However, they should do make the effort because they have the world’s attention and the power to do something positive with it.
There is an old duty/responsibility example that everyone who has ever gone to law school probably heard: If you see someone else’s baby drowning in a puddle, you have no duty to rescue it. It’s not your baby. You didn’t put it in the water. It’s not your problem. It’s the same thing with athletes. Those aren’t their babies. It’s not their problem.
But they should help. Not because they have a responsibility to do it. They should help because it’s the right thing to do.
sdchicken - February 17, 2012
turbopan - February 17, 2012
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/feb/14/gwynn-set-more-cancer-surgery/?page=3#article
“Gwynn, 51, has blamed the cancer on his longtime use of smokeless tobacco. But Dr. McClain, echoing comments made by UC San Diego Dr. Kevin Brumund in 2010 when Gwynn’s cancer was diagnosed, said that was unlikely.
“Cancer of the parotid is not typically associated with the use of smokeless tobacco,” McClain said. “There would be a possibility if a lesion were nearby, but that possibility is very rare.”"
recorddigger - February 18, 2012
Cancer is random. It can take a bite out of anyone's ass.
I’m a cancer survivor and am very tired of “our safe culture” dictating the way people choose to live. Major props to Tony for respecting personal responsibility over mandated responsibility.
recorddigger - February 18, 2012
thank you!
I was about to cite that. It is rediculous for someone to get angry about tony gwynn not automatically wanting to become a spokesman for the confidence chewing tobacco because he has mouth cancer when in fact is doctors are telling him that his mouth cancer was not caused by chewing tobacco . However even after his doctor’s told him that he seems to have wanted to take more responsibility then was needed , and blames his cancer on his own chewing tobacco use. That is enough for me. I think that it is really easy for those of us who are not in physicians of prominence
cubbuster - February 18, 2012 via mobile
thank you!
I was about to cite that. It is rediculous for someone to get angry about tony gwynn not automatically wanting to become a spokesman for the confidence chewing tobacco because he has mouth cancer when in fact is doctors are telling him that his mouth cancer was not caused by chewing tobacco . However even after his doctor’s told him that he seems to have wanted to take more responsibility then was needed , and blames his cancer on his own chewing tobacco use. That is enough for me.
I think that it is really easy for those of us who are not in position of prominence to criticize people for not taking specific stand against issues that we would like to think that we would be champions for if we were in their position. But maybe tony is just happy to be able to talk walk do his job and still enjoy his family right now . Who are we to decide if he should spend spare minutes of his life speaking out against chewing tobacco. Having just survived cancer now twice, I feel that he has the right to prioritize his life the way he wants even if an overzealous blogger says otherwise
cubbuster - February 18, 2012 via mobile
wow. sorry about that guys. phone keyboard giving me problems lately
cubbuster - February 18, 2012 via mobile
I just figured you were super enthusiastic about recorddigger's comment
Dex - February 18, 2012
well, that too.
cubbuster - February 18, 2012 via mobile
This is semantics...
But cancer of the parotid is rare and they haven’t done adequate studies to prove a link between that form of cancer and smokeless tobaco… yet. The quote is also in poor context. Possibility of what? If there was a lesion near by then he could definitively prove that it was smokeless tobacco that caused the cancer? No. If there was a lesion nearby, he could adequately reference studies that show that cancerous lesions in the mouth ARE correlated with smokeless tobacco.
Let’s be perfectly honest. What do you think the likelihood is that someday a study will show that cancer of the parotid is linked to smokeless tobacco? It seems to me, they just have to get around to it.
Also, it’s misleading to say that cancer is “random”. Obviously, there are things that greatly increase the chances that you will get cancer.
And again… I’m not asking Gwynn to take away anybody’s “rights”. I just believe that he’s in a position where he’s being paid to be a role model to young people and this is one way he can do it.
And in regards to the MLB, There’s plenty of stuff that is dictated as to what you can and can’t do while playing baseball. If the MLB is going to take a hard stand and say that players aren’t allowed to use certain substances that are legal because they enhance performance, then I think saying that they can’t use smokeless tobacco for any number of reasons is perfectly reasonable.
Dex - February 18, 2012
I agree. I believe that Tony's cancer has been caused by chewing tobacco.
That doesn’t take away from the fact that Cancer IS random and plenty of completely healthy people get it. I think it’s very important to preach against carcinogens. That is a good thing. But people go overboard with this shit. Our environments are filled to the brim with carcinogens. The world is a complicated place, and tobacco has been the comfortable scapegoat for all carcinogens. That being said, cancer is a fuckin bitch. It’ll destroy you physically, and it’ll fuck with your emotions even more. Tony was an unbelievable ballplayer, but let’s remember that he’s human. And if I were him, the last thing I would be caring about is my public image related to tobacco use. There are different ways one can be a role model, and what you would want Tony to do might be a bit trite and insincere. The man has been true to himself, and I really respect that. And if he wants to start preaching against tobacco use, I respect that too. The bottom line is that he has choice, the same way that MLB players should have choice. And what really matters is that he’s still alive.
recorddigger - February 18, 2012
really unnecessary to wag the finger like this...
sidneysenses - February 19, 2012
I'm a little late on this...
but I just wanted to say thanks to Dex for writing this. Whether you agree or disagree, it’s a valuable discussion to have. I’m torn because I totally agree that it’s ridiculous that we have a sport in which professional “athletes” are allowed to use tobacco on the field. On the other hand, I’m very much in favor of personal freedoms, responsibilities and consequences. It seems to me that at the very least, tobacco should be banned in dugouts and on the field during games.
Kudos, Dex, for a tremendously well-written opinion piece.
theodore donald kerabatsos - February 21, 2012
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