So I seen the response from other bloggers and internet commenters after jbox posted his thing about Garfinkel trying to rebut the Bob Nightengale $70 million a year TV contract, and I thought I should probably comment since lots of people make underlying snide remarks about our bias towards this FO.
First off, are we fans of Tom Garfinkel?
Yes. I've always thought him much more personable than Sandy Alderson in the same role. I started out a fan of Sandy Alderson, then I saw the commercials featuring Sandy and Grady and KT as the "best front office in baseball" and I thought ugh. And then they gave us 2004-2008, which was some of the most uninspired baseball combined with blind luck to back your way into the postseason that I've ever seen and I totally soured on them. Not to mention Sandy Alderson, during a broadcast, saying, "If the fans boo too loud, we'll just turn up the music." When I heard that, I lost my sh_t.
Throughout, I was a fan of Paul DePodesta, even though I'm still not sure what it was he did while he was with the Padres.
I think if anybody were to go back in the archives of Gaslamp Ball, they will see that we've been pretty consistent in realizing a simple fact that I would guess 95% of Padres fans don't realize.
San Diego is a small media market when compared to the other MLB media markets.
I don't know why this information is hard to believe, considering it's true and readily available to be seen. If you Google "Top Media Markets", you will find any number of resources telling you that the Padres are somewhere between 26th and 30th in the US, with a few non-MLB media markets thrown in (cities that incidentally get included in our competition's broadcast area).
The Padres TV Deal, will be strongly based on the size of the Padres media market
If we were San Jose. A smaller media market (but able to draw TV audience from a neighboring HUGE media market), with a stinking rich population filled with stinking rich companies all wanting to advertise with the local baseball team, then I could see bargaining upwards in a TV deal. For example, If/When the A's get a stadium built in San Jose, what do you think it will be named? Yahoo stadium? Google+ Park? eBay Field?
We play, no offense to animal lovers everywhere, at petco park (lowercase intended). Petco... A Fortune one thousand company.
We live in a military town, with some (but not a lot of) high tech companies, minimal discretionary income and a largely transplant populace.
So when I think Bob Nightengale's $70 million is way off, I don't know how this equates to other bloggers and commenters as us having a biased view. Sure. I'm biased in that I'm a fan of Garfinkel (along with lots of other Padres FO members both past and present that I've met), but if this were a FO that I wasn't a fan of, I would call bullshit on the $70 million anyways.
Why?
1. Every other estimate has the Padres between $20-$30 million. So Nightengale's number is an outlier, which immediately makes it suspect.
2. The rumored values of other deals currently in negotiation suggest $150 million a year for an LA team. San Diego is not half the media market of LA. Refer to those references that you Googled earlier. We are a fifth the size of LA. Again, if LA suggests $150 million a year, then a fifth of that is $30 million a year. The top end of everybody's estimate except Bob Nightengale's.
3. Nightengale's reasoning is that his $70 million a year is averaged over an escalated deal and includes equity in the stake that the Padres are getting in FS West San Diego.
OK So the third point is where it gets wishy washy and were I could very well be wrong about Nightengale's numbers (but I don't think I am).
First, I think the Padres are right to get a stake in the regional sports network. I look at the largest teams out there and they basically hedge the money made in TV deals by separately owning their regional sports networks (I'm thinking of YES and NESN). In fact, if San Diego literally had anything else they could broadcast on their RSN, then I would complain that the Padres weren't getting more than Nightengale's estimate that the Padres will be getting a third.
But if Nightengale is including equity in the RSN, then my bad math would suggest that $50 million per year extra is the "equity" of the RSN, which most rumors say the Padres will have a third share in. $50 million a year in equity over 20 years for something the Padres have a third share in suggests that the San Diego RSN, which has yet to actually be created, is currently worth north of $3 billion. Without a deal in place and whose primary draw is the Padres with no opportunity to broadcast an NBA, NHL, or MLS team.
Thank goodness our minor leagues are so good.
But regarding the $3 billion... I just have to say... Does that sound right to anybody? Keep this in mind. Some estimates would say that the YES network is worth $3 billion. And New York's media market? Yeah somewhere around 10 times the size of San Diego's. In Nightengale's own article, he credits the Rangers RSN with a $3 billion valuation and they broadcast to all of Texas. That's the second largest state in the union, mind you, by populous and size.
It seems to me, Nightengale took the most recent estimate he could find of an RSN: $3 billion. Divided that by 3. Divided that by 20. And then added the number to the estimate that everybody else has for the Padres TV deal. Or somebody did that for him.
Feasible? I guess.
So no. I don't believe Bob Nightengale. I think his numbers are exaggerated and I don't think he would've got them from anybody at Fox nor at the Padres, so I still do believe that his numbers were "leaked" to potentially help another team (or every other team) score richer deals. Much like the NFL's constant, hollow threats about moving a football team to LA, claiming that one of the smallest markets in baseball is scoring one of the potentially richest TV contracts is MLB's way of milking as much TV money as possible for each of their teams.
Do we want the Padres to score a ton of money from their cable deal? Yes, if it helps the operating costs and puts a better team on the field. Do we want the deal to be worth Yankee or Ranger money despite the fact that our market would suggest much less?
No, unless you don't mind paying extra on your cable bill so that FSN West can prove some of that YES Network valuation.
[UPDATE] Tom Krasovic writes that Bob Nightengale's numbers are basically a best case scenario. Sooo... Assuming that things work out perfectly over the next 20 years, Bob Nightengale will be proven right.
In that case, I actually think the Padres deal is actually worth a zillion dollars.
The problem with claiming that the Padres are going to be making a certain amount per year based on "best case scenario"? Look at the housing crisis. That's a ton of people that took out the "guaranteed equity" in their "million dollar homes" and then had to get bailed out when nobody was willing to pay six figures for them and the banks came collecting on the money they spent.
3 recs | 57 comments
agree 100%
http://www.sportstvjobs.com/resources/local-tv-market-sizes-dma.html
Only Kansas City, Milwaukee, and Cincinnati have MLB teams and are smaller.
Add Wichita to Kansas City and its now bigger than San Diego
Add Louisville to Cincinnati and its now bigger than San Diego too.
kevintheoman - February 11, 2012
Krasovic has his own write up
field39 - February 11, 2012
KRASOVIC
Always scooping me. I will say that, while I didn’t have the benefit of having seen his post while writing mine, I’m kinda pleased that my own conclusions fell in line pretty well with his.
Dex - February 11, 2012
He is ratcheting the numbers down, in the twitterverse.
field39 - February 11, 2012
You make several well reasoned points
but you’re only making them because Tom gave you free t-shirts and let you on the field.
SeeAnFrockOh - February 11, 2012
Paul DePodesta started writing a pretty kick-ass blog while he was working for the Padres...
And then he stopped :’-(
sdchicken - February 12, 2012
It Might Be Dangerous...
I sure miss it.
jodes0405 - February 12, 2012
Based on how quietly it died off, I guess it was dangerous...
sdchicken - February 12, 2012
San Diego is 6th or 7th biggest city in America
That is why the small market thing is hard to digest. The Padres really should get a local star player with ties to Mexico. This player would be popular in both countries, and help the Padres reach into Mexico, in particular the border cities. This area could then be used to increase the Padres market. Wait……that sounds familiar for some reason…..
Ualtar - February 12, 2012
Great point
I get to the point where I assume that people realize that size of the city doesn’t correlate with media market, but it’s obviously not the case. Even people who know that the Padres media market is smaller than the size of the city probably wouldn’t imagine that we’re smaller than Portland or Charlotte.
Dex - February 12, 2012
Well that and the San Diego TV market doesn't extend into Mexico
Officially anyway, right?
athletics68 - February 12, 2012
Yup.
All international media rights belong to MLB. I’m kind of curious how badly the Padres get screwed by that relative to everybody else. I’m sure the Dodgers, Yankees, and Red Sox could all do pretty well internationally. Does Seattle get any cash from Canadian broadcasts?
Darklighter - February 12, 2012
I know that the entire country is blackout territory for the Blue Jays
not sure if the Mariners found a way to broadcast in Vancouver, BC
kevintheoman - February 12, 2012
Canada is shared between the Jays primarily, Twins, Red Sox and Mariners
athletics68 - February 12, 2012
This makes me hate Selig even more! (didn't know that was possible)
Why is Selig such a prick about Mexico?
kevintheoman - February 12, 2012
Because he's a rich relatively powerful American?
I kid, but just barely.
athletics68 - February 12, 2012
Even if we had Mexico...
It’s no Canada.
Dex - February 12, 2012
populations of
Mexico 113,423,050
Canada 34,108,752
Padres should rent some drug tunnels so they can easily shuttle Mexicans fans to the games.
Hormel - February 12, 2012
So we don't get international broadcast rights but the HATED MARINERS do?
Dammit, Selig!
Darklighter - February 12, 2012
Why are the Mariners "hated" again?
athletics68 - February 12, 2012
They are our rivals, our foil, our nemesis!!!
(As established by MLB interleague play)
sdchicken - February 13, 2012
it's NATURAL for the mariners to be our rivals
all other rivalries are unnatural.
kevintheoman - February 13, 2012
Natural like Heidi Montag's body right?
Natural like the smile plastered on any politician’s face?
Natural like the “peninsula” that is Coronado and Silver Strand?
Natural like whales that do tricks on command?
Natural like the love between Jed Hoyer and Theo Epstein?
Natural like Los Angeles’ entire existence?
That kind of natural right?
athletics68 - February 13, 2012
Bud Selig thinks so
kevintheoman - February 13, 2012
Nope. Everything south of our border is marked "Here be Dragons" on maps.
It’s also the largest U.S. media markets – they don’t even count Toronto.
San Diego is the 8th largest city by population within the city limits, we’re ahead of
Dallas there, but we’re 26th in media market, while Dallas is 7th. Portland is 23rd
but we’re ahead of Charlotte (27) but not by much.
Tampa Bay is much higher than us but can’t draw baseball fans or get much media
revenue. A lot of the problems are local, and history plays a big part. The Doggers
got here first and won the allegiance of Mexican fans. The only time Mexico made
a difference for us was when Fernando was here, and Fernando-mania was more
muted here than in Chavez Ravine Stadium.
If we want a big fan base from Tijuana/Baja, we have to develop a Mexican-Born
star and keep him. That’s why I’m hoping Lefty Juan Oramas is a big success, and
we can develop Juan-O-mania here.
Outside of media revenue, the Padres would do well to drop the “Baseball Club”
moniker, become a conglomerate and acquire associated companies. Instead of
buying the triple-A club, Moorad should have bought Mission Brewery to make
Padres Beer to sell at Petco and make private label beers for others, like Aztec
Brewery used to do. The added revenue could buy a good double play combination.
wegotballsley - February 12, 2012
Problem is
Even if we did have a Mexican star it wouldn’t help much. Sure our attendance might go up, but the bulk of money for MLB teams is in the TV deals now. And no star would increase our TV deal value by any appreciable amount as the market remains constrained by LA, Mexico and the lack of major population center east of Santee/El Cajon (sorry El Centro).
athletics68 - February 12, 2012
the baseball tv market doesn't extend into mexico both officially AND unofficially
besides the occasional ESPN International or whatever, they don’t get MLB games. You can blame Selig for that.
kevintheoman - February 12, 2012
So yet another hamstring of the San Diego TV market
That no other major metro area has to deal with since no other MLB city is shoehorned so close to the Mexican border and a far larger “city” like LA.
athletics68 - February 12, 2012
But Mexico does gets the huge broadcast on 1090.
Jsn L - February 12, 2012
in all seriousness,
Eduardo Ortega is some sort of legend from what I hear
kevintheoman - February 12, 2012
Met him at Fanfest. Really nice and really outgoing.
Darklighter - February 12, 2012
Mexico...
just really isn’t all that into baseball.
Who was the biggest Mexican born player before Adrian, Vinnie Castilla?
Also I imagine that the logistics of getting across the border make going to games nearly impossible. I think that it is hard for people to fall in love with a team that they cannot actually go see live every once and awhile.
AYEq - February 12, 2012
fernando valenzuela
he was a HUGE draw for the dodgers
iheartyourfart - February 12, 2012
I think you'd be surprised
how popular baseball is to mexican nationals. Maybe there have not been a large number of stars born in mexico, but how much of that is from lack of exposure. When Cecil Fielder had his youth tournaments in Yuma last summer, many teams were from mexico. They were loud, proud and outsupported even the local teams. The teams from Hermosillo were begging Fielder to run his tournament down there, and I believe that may happen soon.
Nater Tater - February 12, 2012
that is because mexicans are the best sports fans in the world
iheartyourfart - February 13, 2012
it can a bit easier to digest when you see that SD is 17th in terms of metro area
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas
kevintheoman - February 12, 2012
MLB has the right to Mexico TV rights
not the Padres.
Ron Mexico - February 12, 2012
I saw Moneyball
and in my qualified opinion, that means Paul Depodesta sat around silently mouthing and blinking like a fish
abara - February 12, 2012
he got nominated for an Oscar though.
Dalton - February 12, 2012
probably because he answered to a different name all movie.
Dalton - February 12, 2012
I bet he would have allowed his name to be used if Skinny Jonah Hill were portraying him.
jambolyajones - February 13, 2012
The way I look at it
is that we will be getting more money this coming year than previous years so at least we are improving. I’ll take the $30M figure that has been suggested.
mrbarneydangles - February 12, 2012
No way in hell the Padres are worth that much
TheVinylCrocodile - February 12, 2012
At the end of the day
It’s a significant upgrade financially from the previous TV deal. So we have to be happy about that.
Sam (sdsuaztec4) - February 12, 2012
Yes.
Thank you.
Dubsco - February 12, 2012
unless
every other club gets a bigger contract…and the Padres just fall further behind
Hormel - February 12, 2012
This will happen
Better to accept it now. We’re in for a mess of a labor strife next time around because the competitive balance we do have, will go bye bye due during this CBA to the TV deals. It’s only a matter of time.
athletics68 - February 12, 2012
All I know is:
That Pads fans are now in the unenviable position of trusting either (a) baseball owners or (b) a newspaper drawn in crayon.
Dalton - February 12, 2012
Can you define "uninspired"?
Because people bend over backwards looking for ways to discredit the Padres’ success during much of Alderson’s regime due to his honest and blunt nature.
Which is difficult, and that’s why fans say things like “Yeah the Padres won games, but winning under Alderson is so boring!” or “Yeah they won games, but those years were mostly luck and was uninspiring” etc.
Melvin Nieves - February 13, 2012
I'm sure you can look up the definition of "uninspired" as well as anybody
Honestly though, that may be a bad choice of words, though I’m sure there’s a better word for an 82 win first place season, having Phil Nevin and Ryan Klesko glare at the owner’s box after pop flies, Jake Peavy hurting himself celebrating, Khalil Greene psychologically self-destructing under the pressures of San Diego media, showing up completely non-competitive in the post season, having first round draft picks show up as immature and non-coachable, continually relying on free agency and Kevin Towers to dumpster dive for pitching and so on and so on.
And what was honest? Bringing in DePo and sticking him in a non-existent role, hoping that your current GM will quit and then saying that DePo’s just an “office runner”? Saying that you’ll turn up the music to drown out the noise of booing fans? Claiming that the new training facility in the DR will just draw in talent that we don’t have to pay for because they’ll just LOVE playing in the Padres building that much?
I think the conspiracy theory about Moorad just wanting to look out for his cronies and former players is absolutely laughable considering Alderson basically did the same thing. It’s the nature of the business. You develop relationships and bring in people you like to work with. Why does Alderson get a pass with the “smart” fans for that and Moorad gets critiqued?
Dex - February 13, 2012
I think uninspired is a good word.
Those Padres teams just kept letting other teams back in the division race. They’d win 2 games and talk about how they’ve turned the corner then lose 3. They played with very little passion and had no killer instinct. They were frustrating to watch.
jbox - February 13, 2012
also, "blunt" can be a bad thing
Especially when the answer to the question, “The Padres should probably be running away with this division, right?” ends up being Sandy yelling, “PADRES FANS HAVE NEVER HAD IT SO GOOD. I SHOULD BE COMMISSIONER.”
Dex - February 13, 2012
Those interviews ususally started with 10 minutes of Mark Loretta questions
When they had him properly primed, they would push him one more time and watch him blow up. The man had no businss doing a live radio spot once a week. That being said, those interviews went exactly the way Smith and Werndall wanted them to go.
field39 - February 13, 2012
I looked up "uninspired"
The answer is:
"Lacking in imagination or originality: “repetitive and uninspired poetry”"
This is a baseball team of baseball players who play baseball. If they were doing things like writing poetry, I can understand how the dictionary definition of uninspired would be easy to understand. But the Padres don’t write poetry, they play baseball, so I think discrediting the most successful era in Padres history (cue hilarious joke about that not saying much) using such a vague term deserves more discussion.
And discussion you provided. Uninspiring in a baseball sense means watching star players complain because decisions made by the front office destroyed their most valuable skill, while idiots tried to discredit those players saying “it’s all in their head!” which has now been quantitatively proven false. Uninspired also means star players hurting themselves, ok fair enough, but I’m not sure how you can pin that on Alderson. It means a player drafted by Kevin Towers (who was relieved of control of the draft) having some awful sounding issues in his head which were probably related to his religion’s method of repressing emotion.
As for the series of failed first round draft picks—no question, Alderson and DePodesta failed pretty poorly there. I have no idea what Jeff Moorad’s motivations are for his decisions, I’m not one for conspiracies though I have my suspicions. But why does that matter? The results are what they are. The group that gave the Padres the best two years of drafting in what might possibly be the franchise’s entire existence is now doing that for the Chicago Cubs. The Padres new General Manager has a history of doing the opposite—pissing away a top farm system without a whole lot to show for it.
The honesty I refer to is Alderson’s dialogue with the fans. When they would continually repeat stupid stuff like “Petco Park is only a pitcher’s park in the player’s heads” he would call them on it. This may not have been the best way to interact with fans, and he probably shouldn’t have been the guy on the radio, but I’d take Alderson 100 times over a PR drone who blows smoke up Padres fans’ collective asses and tells us what he thinks we want to hear.
Melvin Nieves - February 15, 2012
Assuming that things work out perfectly over the next 20 years....
Los Angeles will be the epicenter of the Zombie Apocalypse, devastating their market and turning the demoted Dodgers franchise into a Cal League cellar dweller.
The Zombie-immune San Diego market becomes the Wall St. of the West Coast and Dex is proven right as the Padres deal becomes worth a zillion dollars.
jambolyajones - February 13, 2012
I had a zillion dollars once...
But then they took it away from me and said it was “counterfeit”. Damn clerks at Walmart.
athletics68 - February 13, 2012
I'll trade you
two half zillion dollar bills for your zillion dollar bill
Hormel - February 13, 2012
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